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Brian Edmunds's avatar

Great observation Kristian. In my view Rod Liddle is an arch deacon at finding a crack and punching a wedge right through! But I enjoy his views and that wedge when he hammers it but, it’s his way to shake up thinking that I like but don’t necessarily agree with. Liberal or not, woke or not, left wing or right wing my view is labels are not always correct. And if you try to label thoughts to explain them then the thoughts or words are unclear or the argument has been lost. The argument is either won or lost. It’s either black or white. But when it’s not then labels are needed to describe to pigeon hole the argument. We label religion by pigeon holing religions. But the argument on which is best or correct has been lost. As the overall argument has not been won or lost. I would like to say something on the subject of left or right wing and central. It’s in my view that most use this method to visualise views on a two dimensional linear way. As it’s easy to explain and perceive. But I prefer to see it as three dimensions. In the round! For example, if you pick up that linear ‘string’ of left right ends and the middle and pick it up and join those ends in the round it becomes a clearer position. The right end (wing) and the left end become the same side of a sphere. In other words the left wing communist become no different to a right wing fascist! Both are dictators and the remainder are what is see as the centre democracy. The dark side of that sphere being dictators and the near side democratic middle that we know is a better free and liberal majority of reasonable people and those not under oppression. At present we act like accountants who only look at the two sides of book keeping. Money in money out. Linear and two dimensional. But we need the Rod Liddles of this world who try to fragment that line. I however feel we should all step back from two dimensional thinking and think in three dimensions to allow a bigger view to accommodate all those labels without ‘wedges’. I’d like to offer a final thought in an economic way. I see our politicians only think in two dimensions. Money in money out! They are so narrow minded that all they can achieve is deciding how much they have and how much they can or can’t spend. That type of budgeting like a household often referred to by Thatcher is just not good enough. It wasn’t good enough then and it’s not good enough now. You can’t run an economy like a household budget! That’s how we have got to where we have got! It’s small minded thinking. And defines these charged to do the best, not being able to think in the round. An economy is not just money in money out! That same money going out has to come back around again! So it’s three dimensional. But as we all know there is a fourth dimension! TIME!!!!! It’s how long or how short that cycle works. At this time we have money going out and no way of knowing how and when it’s going to come back! And how long or short in time it will it will not! So Thatcher was a like an anchor on our economy by thinking in two dimensions only. We need to be sure when money goes out it comes back again and fast! While the rich get richer and the poor get poorer as that money goes one way and not the other we see playing out since Thatcher that process. To the point when we borrow to run the country we have only those rich to borrow from snd guess what? They want their money back and more making them richer! And the poor poorer. Money is finite. There is only so much in play at any one time. But unless we make away for money to rotate it will never work. We all need to think in four dimensions not two and that’s true in all aspects of our life snd debate!

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Paul Cassidy's avatar

Despite being, like you, a “liberal” in the old fashioned, non US, sense, I have pretty much avoided the term all my life - and I’m older than you - since I consider the word to have been tainted by the Liberal Party which for the last 50 years has been no such thing either in that incarnation or in its later merger with the SDP.

As an undergraduate 45 years ago and voting for Thatcher in the 1983 election I described myself to fellow students as a “Gladstonian liberal” to distinguish myself from people who called themselves liberals who were inevitably associated with the party of that name. But generally it was apparent that this perhaps rather pretentious usage was not very helpful in distinguishing me from the modern Liberal Party. Maybe the association has become less since that party name disappeared in favour of the abbreviation Lib Dem where the L word is scarcely ever used in full and therefore you can feel secure in still calling yourself a liberal. As you clearly do. But for those of us politically formed in the days before the LD Party came into existence liberal, via the Liberal Party, was too much associated with a position as left as, and during the Blair years more left than, the Labour Party.

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